Posts by Patchtail

    Chocolate point LH x Cinnamon tabby SH

    Chocolate tabby, chocolate, lilac tabby, lilac, cinnamon tabby, cinnamon, fawn tabby, fawn, chocolate lynx point, chocolate point, lilac lynx point, lilac point, cinnamon lynx point, cinnamon point, fawn lynx point, fawn point

    Point kits will have blue eyes. Other kits can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Kits can be longhaired or shorthaired.

    Cinnamon point LH x Cinnamon tabby SH

    Cinnamon tabby, cinnamon, cinnamon lynx point, cinnamon point, fawn tabby, fawn, fawn lynx point, fawn point

    Point kits will have blue eyes. Other kits can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Kits can be longhaired or shorthaired.

    All kittens would be blue (cat breeder term for solid gray). Theoretically they can have any realistic eye color except blue, but most likely they will have yellow, orange or copper. They would all be shorthairs. If both parents are pedigree Chartreux then the kittens are too, and will likely have Chartreux breed traits.

    (Medium fur is genetically the same as long fur, so I'm listing them and the kits as longhaired, but this includes what people think of as "medium haired" so they can be that)


    Seal lynx point LH x Red cameo LH

    DFAB kits: silver torbie, dilute silver torbie, torbie, dilute torbie, tortie smoke, dilute tortie smoke, tortie, dilute tortie, silver torbie point, dilute silver torbie point, torbie point, dilute torbie point, tortie smoke point, dilute tortie smoke point, tortie point, dilute tortie point

    DMAB kits: red cameo, cream cameo, red tabby, cream tabby, red cameo point, cream cameo point, red point, cream point

    Point kits will have blue eyes. Other kits can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Kits will all be longhaired.

    If the red tabby is the father:


    Red marbled tabby SH x Cinnamon marbled tabby w/ low white LH

    DFAB kits: torbie, dilute torbie, cinnamon torbie, fawn torbie, tortie, dilute tortie, cinnamon tortie, fawn tortie, or any of those with white

    DMAB kits: brown tabby, blue tabby, cinnamon tabby, fawn tabby, black, blue, cinnamon, fawn, or any of those with white

    Kits with white can have any realistic eye color. Kits without white can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Tabbies/torbies can be marbled or classic pattern.

    Kits with white will have low white (less than 50% white).

    Kits can be longhaired or shorthaired.



    If the red tabby is the mother:


    Cinnamon marbled tabby w/ low white LH x Red marbled tabby SH

    DFAB kits: torbie, dilute torbie, cinnamon torbie, fawn torbie, tortie, dilute tortie, cinnamon tortie, fawn tortie, or any of those with white

    DMAB kits: red tabby, cream tabby, or any of those with white

    Kits with white can have any realistic eye color. Kits without white can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Tabbies/torbies can be marbled or classic pattern.

    Kits with white will have low white (less than 50% white).

    Kits can be longhaired or shorthaired.

    Aerial tail doesn't have a physical effect on the tail, it just means the cat has a genetic tendency to prefer to have its tail arched up over its back. Similar to how full on ringtail cats don't have a physically curlier tail, they just have the genetically inherited tendency to like to curl their tail that way.


    If the mother has the aerial tail mutation, then the kits can have normal tails, aerial tails, or ringtails.

    Since he's NPC x NPC, there isn't much I can say for sure but this is the part of his genotype that can be deduced from his appearance.


    Aab-C-DdmcmcSsL-


    Aa - He's a tabby, onsite we assume all tabbies carry solid so he would carry solid

    b- - He's chocolate, if you want he could carry cinnamon (bb1) or not (bb)

    C- - He's not point, mink, sepia, or albino. If you want, he could carry point (Ccs), sepia (Ccb), or albino (Cc), or not (CC).

    Dd - He's not a dilute color. Onsite we assume all non-dilutes carry dilute.

    mcmc - He's a classic tabby.

    Ss - He has 50% or less white spotting

    L- - He's shorthaired, could carry longhaired if you want (Ll) or not (LL)

    Silver marbled charcoal SH Bengal (carrying cinnamon, sepia, ringtail, no dilute) x Black LH NFC w/ ojos azules (masking mackerel, carrying chocolate, amber, classic, BEA, ringtail)

    Silver charcoal, chocolate silver charcoal, black charcoal, chocolate charcoal, black smoke, chocolate smoke, black, chocolate, silver charcoal sepia, chocolate silver charcoal sepia, seal charcoal sepia, chocolate charcoal sepia, seal smoke sepia, chocolate smoke sepia, seal sepia, chocolate sepia

    Kits may have Ojos Azules mutation deep blue eyes. Otherwise, sepia kits will have eye colors in the range of gold to green; other kits can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Charcoals can be braided, mackerel, marbled, or classic pattern. (Braided = mackerel + outlining)

    Kits can be longhaired or shorthaired.

    Kits may mask or carry ringtail. Kits may carry dilute and/or amber. Sepia kits will carry blue-eyed albino; other kits can carry either sepia or blue-eyed albino. Chocolate-based kits will carry cinnamon; other kits can carry chocolate or cinnamon.

    Kits may have some Norwegian Forest Cat and/or Bengal physical traits.

    1) Glitter (both mica glitter and satin glitter) are not very common even in Bengals. Also, even if he has the gene, it's unknown whether it would actually show up in a charcoal cat - mica doesn't show up on solid cats even if they have the gene, only on tabbies; charcoal is "in between" solid and tabby so it might or might not show up, Idk if anyone has tried it.


    2) Unfortunately, the mica mutation is believed to have descended from an Indian domestic cat used in the original Asian Leopard Cat/domestic cat breedings that produced the Bengal breed. It's really not likely that a Norwegian Forest Cat, from the other side of the world, would have the same mutation.


    3) We don't know if golden charcoals can exist or not! Like mica, the golden mutation affects tabbies, but not solids (except smokes). Charcoal is phenotypically in between tabby and solid, and as far as I know nobody has done a charcoal x golden test breeding, so we just don't know if it would be affected or not.


    4) As far as I know, nothing on its own.


    5) You know how normal (rosetted) bengals' spots have dark outsides and lighter brown centers? They are spotted tabbies with a mutation called outlining, inherited from Asian leopard cats. A marbled tabby is a classic tabby with outlining.


    6) Masked just means you can't see it from looking at the cat. If you can see it, it's not being masked.

    Usually with charcoal you can see the tabby pattern.

    There are some charcoals that are so dark you can't see what pattern it is, so then it would count as being masked, but if his bio says he's marbled then I'm assuming it's visible.



    Actual pairing genetics in next post

    That seems mostly accurate. However, a "brown tabby" is actually the name for a tabby with black stripes, and it looks like Snakepaw's stripes are dark brown not black, so I would call him a chocolate classic tabby with low-medium white.

    You're very close! Remember that smoke is just the solid version of silver, so there's no such thing as a silver smoke. Also, cameo is just the red/cream base version of silver, so there are no "silver cameos" or "smoke cameos". Smoke, cameo, and silver are all the same thing - just what it's called on a solid, red-base tabby, or black/chocolate/cinnamon-base tabby respectively.


    To make it easier to see the pattern, I'm listing the options in this order: non-smoke solids, smokes, regular non-silver tabbies, regular silver tabbies, golden non-silver tabbies, shaded silver (golden + silver) tabbies. (This doesnt apply as much to the DMAB row since red-bases can't be solid and also aren't affected by golden unless they happen to be cameo.)


    Golden broken classic tabby w/ low white LH x Dark tortie smoke w/ high white LH

    Any: Black, blue, black smoke, blue smoke, brown tabby, blue tabby, silver tabby, blue silver tabby, golden tabby, blue golden tabby, shaded silver tabby, blue shaded silver tabby; all with white

    DFAB only: tortie, dilute tortie, tortie smoke, dilute tortie smoke, torbie, dilute torbie, silver torbie, dilute silver torbie, golden torbie, blue golden torbie, shaded silver torbie, blue shaded silver torbie; all with white

    DMAB only: red tabby, cream tabby, red cameo, cream cameo, red shaded cameo, cream shaded cameo; all with white

    Smokes can be dark or medium (If there are different smoke lightnesses possible, We usually just put this instead of listing them all to save typing)

    Kits can have any amount of white but all will have some white

    All will be longhaired

    Tabbies/torbies can be classic or broken classic pattern.

    (If one parent is a non-tabby, we normally assume that they mask the same basic tabby type, without spotting, as the tabby parent, for simplicity. We only assume it's different if the person requesting genetics asked for more variety.)


    Anyway how tabby patterns work:


    There are actually several different genes influencing tabby patterns.


    1) Agouti (Tabby) gene - Controls if the cat is tabby or solid. Tabby allele A is dominant, solid allele a is recessive. If the cat has genotype aa (homozygous solid), it will appear solid (unless it is red/cream in which case it will still appear tabby) but it still has the other tabby pattern genes, you just can't see their effect or know what they are without a DNA test.


    2) Main tabby pattern gene - Mackerel pattern Mc is dominant, classic allele mc is recessive. When doing a mackerel tabby x classic tabby litter, we always assume the mackerel parent carries classic (i.e. they have genotype Mcmc) so that there can be both mackerel and classic pattern kits.


    3) Ticked tabby gene - Controls if the cat is a ticked tabby. Ticked allele T is dominant and overrides the effect of the main tabby pattern gene (regardless of if the cat is genetically mackerel or classic, if it has TT or Tt it will be ticked instead, if it is tabby.) Non-ticked allele t is recessive and allows the main tabby pattern gene effect to show. In ticked tabby x other tabby litters, we usually assume that the ticked tabby is heterozygous Tt so that they can have non-ticked kits. The exception to this is if the ticked tabby is an Abyssinian or Somali, breeds that are always ticked tabby so they should all be homozygous.


    4) Spotting gene - Spotted allele Sp is incomplete dominant, non-spotted allele sp is incomplete recessive. Heterozygous Spsp tabby cats may appear spotted tabby or they may appear broken tabby; homozygous SpSp tabby cats are spotted. Like all the other pattern genes, this is still overridden by solid. Here are some photos:


    Broken mackerel tabby (the stripes are broken up and there are some spots)

    vmqPdGR.png


    Spotted mackerel tabby


    Broken classic tabby (This is a Bengal, so it also has another effect called outlining where the center of the markings are lighter than the edges. However this is only found in hybrids like Bengals so I won't go into it here.)


    Spotted classic tabby

    6J8f33F.png


    As for how to be taught by a geneticist - I would recommend either asking in the discord server (there's a genetics channel) or making a thread in this board with a title stating you're seeking training. I don't like teaching so I don't do it but I know there are other blue badges who do.s

    - Remember that smoke + tabby = silver tabby, red/cream tabby + smoke = red/cream came


    - All cats pass on tabby patterns - even if they are solid, they still have the tabby patterning genes, they are just masked by the presence of the solid mutation. However if it's not known we usually assume solid or tortie cats have the same pattern genotype as their mate.


    - Broken classic = classic + heterozygous spotted.


    - Yes golden combines with other colors. The "typical" golden tabby is a brown golden tabby but other colors can be golden too (except red bases which aren't affected)

    Imgur compilation of different golden tabby colors


    - Here are some tables of how wideband ("golden", codominant allele Wb) works and how it combines with smoke/silver (dominant allele I)

    Black-factor tabbies (example: brown tabby)


    ii I-
    wbwb brown tabby silver tabby
    Wbwb golden tabby shaded silver tabby
    WbWb shaded golden tabby/
    golden chinchilla
    silver chinchilla


    Solids (example: black)


    ii I-
    wbwb black black dark smoke
    (often just called "black smoke")
    Wbwb black black medium smoke
    WbWb black black light smoke


    Red-factor tabbies (example: red tabby)


    ii I-
    wbwb red tabby red cameo
    Wbwb red tabby red shaded cameo
    WbWb red tabby red shell cameo/
    red chinchilla


    Torties:


    ii I-
    wbwb tortie dark tortie smoke
    (often just called "tortie smoke")
    Wbwb tortie medium tortie smoke
    WbWb tortie light tortie smoke


    Torbies:


    ii I-
    wbwb torbie silver torbie
    Wbwb golden torbie shaded silver torbie
    WbWb shaded golden torbie/
    golden chinchilla torbie
    silver chinchilla torbie

    Black LH Maine Coon x Chocolate tabby (I am assuming he's shorthair since the picture isn't showng up)

    Brown tabby, blue tabby, chocolate tabby, lilac tabby, black, blue, chocolate, lilac

    Kits can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Kits can be longhaired or shorthaired.

    Kits may have some amount of Maine Coon breed traits.


    Yeah you could have a kit that looks really Maine Coon. On the other hand you could get a kit that doesn't look Maine Coon-like at all, or somewhere in the middle. The physical traits that make a cat look like a breed (size, body shape, fur texture, etc.) are just as complicated as physical traits in humans. So it's as likely as a human couple having a kid that super resembles one parent and not the other - it might not be super common, but it happens.

    Blue LH Nebelung x Red tabby w/ low white LH

    DFAB kits: torbie, dilute torbie, tortie, dilute tortie, or any of those with low white

    DMAB kits: red tabby, cream tabby, or either of those with low white

    Kits with white can have any realistic eye color. Kits without white can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Kits will all be longhaired.

    Kits may show some Nebelung breed traits.

    Blue ticked tabby Oriental LH x Brown mackerel tabby Maine Coon LH

    Brown mackerel tabby, brown ticked tabby, blue mackerel tabby, blue ticked tabby, black, blue

    Kits can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Kits will all be longhaired.

    Kits may show some Oriental and/or Maine Coon physical breed traits.

    He's a blue golden ticked tabby shorthair. The other cat is a calico longhair Munchkin.


    Blue golden ticked tabby SH x Calico LH Munchkin

    DFAB kits only: golden torbie, dilute golden torbie, torbie, dilute torbie, tortie, dilute tortie, or any of those with white

    DMAB kits only: red tabby, cream tabby, or any of those with white

    Any sex: golden tabby, blue golden tabby, brown tabby, blue tabby, black, blue, or any of those with white

    Kits with white can have any realistic eye color. Kits without white can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Kits with white will have less than 50% white. Torties with white can be called calicos; torbies with white can be called torbicos or calibies.

    Kits can be longhaired or shorthaired.

    Kits can be Munchkins (short legs) or have normal legs.

    FYI, the photo you posted for the father is actually a brown tabby, rather than a fawn tabby. I'll do the genetics twice, once with him as fawn tabby like the description and one with brown tabby like the photo, and you can pick which one you want to use.


    Brown tabby LH x White masking tortie LH

    DFAB kits only: torbie, dilute torbie, tortie, dilute tortie

    DMAB kits only: red tabby, cream tabby

    Any sex: white, brown tabby, blue tabby, black, blue

    White kits can have any realistic eye color, but blue-eyed white kits have a high risk of deafness. Other kits can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    All kits will be longhaired.


    Fawn tabby LH x White masking tortie LH

    DFAB kits only: torbie, dilute torbie, tortie, dilute tortie, cinnamon torbie, fawn torbie, cinnamon tortie, fawn tortie

    DMAB kits only: red tabby, cream tabby

    Any sex: white, brown tabby, blue tabby, black, blue, cinnamon tabby, fawn tabby, cinnamon, fawn

    White kits can have any realistic eye color, but blue-eyed white kits have a high risk of deafness. Other kits can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    All kits will be longhaired.

    Sure!


    Brown tabby SH (assumed carrying chocolate and point) x Black LH (carrying chocolate and point)

    Brown tabby, blue tabby, chocolate tabby, lilac tabby, black, blue, chocolate, lilac, seal lynx point, blue lynx point, chocolate lynx point, lilac lynx point, seal point, blue point, chocolate point, lilac point

    Point kits have blue eyes. Other kits can have any realistic eye color except blue.

    Kits can be longhaired or shorthaired.