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[fancypost bgcolor=white; height: 140px; width: 400px; opacity: 0.85; border-radius: 0pt; overflow:auto;] zenzan ~ thanks, I'll remember all that from now on.
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no problemo~ :)
@ Vespertine
I've never heard of Amber cats... Patchy?
Amber cats are caused by a recessive mutation of the Extension gene, which has 3 alleles:
Eg - top dominant - causes grizzling, a sort of "sparkly" effect found in some Jungle Cats and Chausies.
E - recessive to Eg, dominant to e - "normal" form of the gene, most cats have this
e - bottom recessive - causes amber, where a cat is born black (or blue, or any black-factor color) but lightens to red (or cream if it was born as a dilute color) as it grows up.
Here's an amber silver tabby. It would've been born looking like a regular silver tabby, and as it grows older it will look like a red cameo, but at this point in its life it looks like a mix of the two.
[size=8]http://www.genomia.cz/en/test/locus-e-cat/
Here's an interesting link! :)
Firestar and Sandstorm would make more sense as red tabby and cream tabby respectively, but that way Leafkit wouldn't be possible. xD
Leafkit's impossible even if both Firestar and Sandstorm are amber -- if they were both ee, they should have all ee kits. Her white paws are also impossible either way.
Plus, both Fire and Sand are pretty young when first introduced, and they're described as flame-orange and pale ginger respectively from the start (as opposed to black/blue gradually fading into amber/light amber), so it's more likely that they are red tabby and cream tabby respectively.
The Erin Hunters have admitted they know nothing about cat genetics, and Leafpool is hardly the only example -- there are loads of "brown and cream tabbies", fertile male torties, and black-and-brown/gray-and-black cats in the allegiances. :)
Funnily enough, Lionkit, Hollykit, and Jaykit -- golden tabby, black, and silver tabby with low white, respectively -- (spoiler for Long Shadows, highlight to read) are possible if you assume that Crowfeather is a medium black smoke. They're not possible from Brambleclaw x Squirrelflight, but cats know nothing about genetics so of course they wouldn't figure out their true parentage. However, again, the Erins probably didn't intend this. ;)
Amber cats are caused by a recessive mutation of the Extension gene, which has 3 alleles:
Eg - top dominant - causes grizzling, a sort of "sparkly" effect found in some Jungle Cats and Chausies.
E - recessive to Eg, dominant to e - "normal" form of the gene, most cats have this
e - bottom recessive - causes amber, where a cat is born black (or blue, or any black-factor color) but lightens to red (or cream if it was born as a dilute color) as it grows up.
oh cool! So should we assume Jungle Cats/Chausies to have Eg- or not?
Also, would we assume 'regular' cats to be EE, or Ee so you can also get amber?
oh cool! So should we assume Jungle Cats/Chausies to have Eg- or not?
Also, would we assume 'regular' cats to be EE, or Ee so you can also get amber?
Only assume Jungle Cats have EgE if they are described as being black grizzled, or "black grizzled tabby" (a misnomer, since grizzling is not caused by the tabby gene, but a commonly occuring misnomer). Most Jungle Cats are brown ticked tabbies, and should be assumed to have EE.
Assume regular cats have EE unless:
- they are being bred with an ee cat, or
- the RPer has asked you for "as many options as possible", or something, and assuming the parents to have Ee will increase the number of options
Also, these are the names of the colors caused by amber:
Black --> Amber
Blue --> Light Amber
Chocolate --> Chocolate Amber
Lilac --> Lilac Amber
Cinnamon --> Cinnamon Amber
Fawn --> Fawn Amber
Chocolate amber, lilac amber, cinnamon amber, and fawn amber cats have not been bred in real life because the b and b1 alleles are not found in the Norwegian Forest Cat breed. However, according to Messybeast they should be possible, because the extension gene mutation would work on their eumelanin the same way as it works on black/blue cats' eumelanin, and because some other species have extension mutations similar to amber, which work on all of their black-factor colors.
[size=8] patch
: Yeah, the genetics seem a little funky. xD
A lot of cats have blue eyes with no white, white fur with blue eyes and no deafness (but they can always be rare examples of white high spotting), and *SLIGHT NEW PROHECY SPOILER* Spiderleg has a black coat with a brown underbelly. (Not really a spoiler, but I like finding out cats' warrior names). :P
Also, when reading about Yellowfang's Secret, *YELLOWFANG'S SECRET SPOILERS* [color=transparent]I kind of thought that the Shadowclan cats were sort of inattentive, because since Raggedstar was a normal cat and Yellowfang was a Persian Brokenstar would have to have a flat-ish face/long-ish fur. Who's the mother? Probably short-furred, pointy-snouted Foxheart. xD /facedesk
I wouldn't grudge them the non-deaf blue-eyed white cats. Those do exist, after all, and there's one deaf blue-eyed white cat in the series as well (Snowkit). But otherwise? They don't know much.
I didn't know Yellowfang was an actual Persian, I thought she merely had a flattened face as a random mutation/defect, but I haven't read Yellowfang's Secret so you'd know more than me. Still, Brokenstar wouldn't necessarily have long fur even if Yellowfang did, because the longhair allele is recessive.
[fancypost bgcolor=; background:url(http://v2vrkplcqcvuy4qh.zippyk…crushed-oreo-biscuits.jpg); borderwidth=0px; height: 340px; width: 590px; overflow:auto;]
| [img height=300 width=250]http://i.imgur.com/cERiesi.png[/img] | [fancypost bgcolor=; borderwidth=0px; height: 300px; width: 200px; overflow:auto;] [fancypost bgcolor=; border-top: solid 2px white; border-right: solid 0px black; border-bottom: 2px white solid; border-left: solid black 0px; height:125px; width:150px; color: white; font-family:times new roman; overflow:auto;] OOC|| I don't really pay attention to the genetics in the books. Probably should. Bluestar had blue eyes, but not the ice blue ones, because those are mutational. [/fancypost] [fancypost bgcolor=; border-top: solid 2px white; border-right: solid 0px black; border-bottom: 2px white solid; border-left: solid black 0px; height:125px; width:150px; color: white; font-family:times new roman; overflow:auto;] IC|| [/fancypost][/fancypost] |
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Link to messy beast page;;
http://messybeast.com/eye-colours.htm
According to messybeast, you actually can help influence the colors kits get in their eyes. I didn't fully read it, but I was wondering if we could do it like it was a gene. Like the type of manx tails. Like Stumpy, Rumpy, Rumpy-riser, etc.
Summary of that article:
- General eye color (green, orange, hazel, etc.) is controlled by many genes. There has been selective breeding done to fix certain eye colors or vividness of eye colors, but we don't know the exact genes that influence whether a cat will have, say, green or hazel eyes. This is similar to body type, where there's also been a lot of selection but we don't know the exact alleles responsible for a Siamese cat's giant ears.
- Point cats have blue eyes due to their form of albinism
- Ojos Azules cats have blue eyes regardless of their coat color, but is homozygous lethal
- Mink cats have aqua eyes
- Burmese cats have gold/orange eyes (diagram says "gold", article says "orange"). (However, this is a Burmese breed-standard thing; sepia cats in general seem to have a slightly wider range of eye colors, like this one with lemon-yellow eyes or this one with hazel eyes. I remember reading somewhere that the range of eye colors for sepia cats is gold to green, but I don't know the source for that off the top of my head.)
- White cats can have blue eyes (the article does not mention the high risk of deafness, but there's that). They can also have odd eyes.
- Cats with large amounts of white on their face can also have blue eyes or odd eyes.
- Rarely, totally non-white cats will have odd eyes. We don't know why but it may be due to mosaicism (where a spontaneous mutation develops in one cell while the embryo is at a very early stage, causing the mutation to only affect part of the cat -- similar to chimeras, mosaics have two different sets of genes, but they developed from one original embryo, not two merged ones) or due to the white spotting gene malfunctioning.
- Blue-eyed albinos have blue or lilac/lavender eyes.
- Red-eyed albinos have pink eyes.
And here's where it gets interesting. The red-eyed albino section mentions something called pink-eyed dilution, which has been found once in cats. It causes pink eyes and a lighter-colored (tan) coat, and whatever this mutation is, it's a) recessive and b) not a mutation of the albinism or black-factor genes.
You can read the first half-page of the journal article on it here.
If you a) are a subscriber to the Oxford Journals or specifically the Journal of Heredity, or b) go to a university that uses Shibboleth or OpenAthens, you can read the whole article here. (And if any of you are one of those things and do feel like reading the article I would seriously appreciate it if you could let me know what it says, because I'm not and it would be hard to explain to my parents, paying $38 to read a journal article on cats.)
[mergedate]1399999846[/mergedate]
This page summarizes the pink-eyed dilution thing a bit, though:
QuotePINK-EYED DILUTION
The type of dilution seen in cats is blue dilution (it dilutes black to blue). A second type of dilution seen in many mammals is "pink-eyed dilution". Pink-eyed dilution is characterised by a pink or ruby glimmer to the eye (depigmentation). The coat colour is often diluted to bluish-fawn and the pink-eyed dilution factor is generally inherited as a recessive gene. A possible pink-eyed dilute female cat was reported in 1961. She was described as pink-eyed with a light tan coat. She was mated to a chocolate point Siamese and produced three tabby kittens 10 days premature. Sadly none of the kittens survived. The colour of the kittens implies that pink-eyed dilution in cats is inherited as a recessive trait and is independent of the colourpoint genes. The pigment granules in the hairs of pink-eyed dilute cats were very small and yellowish brown,instead of the normal dark-brown or black. (Todd NB: A pink-eyed dilution in the cat. JHered 52:202, 1961.27.)
[fancypost bgcolor=; background:url(http://v2vrkplcqcvuy4qh.zippyk…crushed-oreo-biscuits.jpg); borderwidth=0px; height: 340px; width: 590px; overflow:auto;]
| [img height=300 width=250]http://i.imgur.com/cERiesi.png[/img] | [fancypost bgcolor=; borderwidth=0px; height: 300px; width: 200px; overflow:auto;] [fancypost bgcolor=; border-top: solid 2px white; border-right: solid 0px black; border-bottom: 2px white solid; border-left: solid black 0px; height:125px; width:150px; color: white; font-family:times new roman; overflow:auto;] OOC|| Ah, okay. I wish more was known about the pink-eyed dilution, because it would be fun to learn about. [/fancypost] [fancypost bgcolor=; border-top: solid 2px white; border-right: solid 0px black; border-bottom: 2px white solid; border-left: solid black 0px; height:125px; width:150px; color: white; font-family:times new roman; overflow:auto;] IC|| [/fancypost][/fancypost] |
500$ for WCRPG
[c]Wonderfilled.
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Please check these!
LESSON 1
LESSON 2
LESSON 3
LESSON 3.5
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Please check these!
LESSON 1
LESSON 2
LESSON 3
LESSON 3.5
Can someone give me a list of what to assume genotype wise?
Can someone give me a list of what to assume genotype wise?
Assume all tabby cats carry solid (i.e. have genotype Aa).
Assume all non-dilute cats carry dilute (i.e. have genotype Dd).
Assume all dilute-modified (caramel, taupe, or apricot) cats carry non-dilute-modified (i.e. have genotype Dmdm).
Assume all silver tabby/smoke cats carry non-silvered (i.e. have genotype Ii).
In general, assume any cat carries any and all recessive genes that its mate shows. So for instance in a litter like Blue classic lynx point x Chocolate mackerel tabby, you would assume the blue point cat carried chocolate, and the chocolate cat carried point and classic-pattern, because those are the recessive genes being displayed by each other's partner.
Assume all white cats carry non-white (i.e. genotype Ww). Assume they mask brown tabby (i.e. have genotype B-"Dd"Aa) unless the RPer tells you they mask a different color.
Assume all red tabby cats (and colors based on red tabby, such as flame sepia) mask black (i.e. have genotype B-"Dd"aa), and assume all cream tabby cats (and colors based on cream tabby) mask blue (i.e. have genotype B-"dd"aa) -- unless the RPer tells you otherwise.
Assume all blue-eyed albino and red-eyed albino cats mask brown tabby (i.e. have genotype B-"Dd"Aa) unless the RPer says otherwise.
If, in a litter between two tabby cats, one's tabby type is specified and the other's isn't (e.g. Brown tabby x Lilac ticked tabby), assume the unspecified one is a mackerel tabby.
The exception to all of the above is wildcats in wildcat x domestic litters. Wildcats are always homozygous for BB and DD, and almost always homozygous for AA and CC, no matter what color their domestic mate is.
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Thank you!
LESSON 4
LESSON 5
Can I PM someone my answers? You can PM them to me if you want.
If, first, you want red-factor practice problems that aren't on the genetics test, try the ones listed under Lesson 2 on this worksheet. (You can post your answers to those here, if you choose to do them, or you can PM them to me too.
If a cat is masking something, e.g brown tabby, would it come out in the litters? So if you had an albino would you say the genetic code is BB AA cc? And do those colors only appear in their kits if the other parent is masking something as well?
It would come out in the litters. So in a litter like Red-eyed Albino (masking brown tabby) x Chocolate, you would have albino, brown tabby, blue tabby, chocolate tabby, lilac tabby, black, blue, chocolate, and lilac kits.
The exceptions would be:
- Albino x Albino, in which all kits would be albino since albinism is recessive so both parents would be homozygous for it.
- Red tabby x Red tabby (or Cream tabby x Red tabby, Red tabby x Flame point, etc.) where both parents are red-based, so all the kits will be red-based.
In both these cases, the kits themselves will mask one of the possibilities from what the parents mask. For instance, in this litter:
Red tabby (masking cinnamon) x Cream tabby (masking lilac tabby)
The kits will be either red tabby or cream tabby; but they could mask chocolate tabby, chocolate, cinnamon tabby, or cinnamon if they are red tabby, and they could mask lilac, lilac tabby, fawn, or fawn tabby if they are cream tabbies.